An open letter to Amy, the proud fag hag.
In the spare few moments between the time I woke up and the time I had to be at the store this morning, I read over a comment being held in moderation left earlier in the AM on my page that defines a fruit fly. I had about 5 minutes to spare and 20 or more emails to get through. The comment was long and wordy - when I’ve just come out of a sleep state, about the only words I can comprehend fully are cigarette and caffeine - so I put it off till later and went about getting ready for work. I returned to read the comment later from the store, when the dream cobwebs were gone from my brain (and yikes have I been having some odd dreams lately, but that’s a topic for another day), and I couldn’t help but be amused. Amy is quite put off - nay, sickened - by the expression “fruit fly”, and has admonished me to be ashamed that I do not want to associate myself with “fag hags.” How dare I!
I resolved that I would eventually use this comment as a spring board to actually POSTING something on this here blog again, but the important business of renting gay porn and selling Madonna DVDs would have to come first, as we are busier than ever at Diverse Universe these days. (Which, overall is a good thing, but is just one of the myriad reasons I’ve been leaving this blog to languish.)
But my oh-so-serious detractor returned, apparently miffed to the hilt at my not having approved her lengthy comment yet, with accusations of deletion and not being able to handle her “truth.” Apparently, such an “important discussion” deserved my immediate attention. Amy, I’m so sorry that you had to wait almost a full day for me to approve your comment and respond, but there were copies of Spy Cocks and Straight College Men to be rented out, and believe me, you don’t want to delay these things. That could have the makings of a riot in the store.
If you are not Amy and you are reading this, you should start by reading my “I am a fruit fly” page if you haven’t recently, then skip down to the first comment left by my Ms. Fag Hag. Then, come back here.
Ready? Here we go.
My Dearest Amy,
To begin with, we will address what I see as the most glaring overall problem with your comment, which is that you take yourself and your status as a fag hag FAR too seriously. Just as I don’t believe that one’s sexual orientation - be it straight, gay, or any one of the number of variations - defines one as a person, whether one is a fag hag or a fruit fly has little to no importance in the grand scheme of life. These phrases, like any phrase used to pigeonhole a person, are simply labels. I am more than a fruit fly, and the use of that term in the title of my blog is meant as tongue-in-cheek for the most part. I am only myself, and one part of who I am is a person who enjoys the company of gay men. (And really, it would be fair to consider it but a small part of my life overall. I don’t preclude someone from the prospect of being a friend just because he or she is straight. It’s just that given where I work currently, I talk to so few straight people that it’s very rare I meet one that I click with. To warp a cliché completely, I have lots of straight friends.) There are many other facets of my being, but “the life cycle of an obsessive pop-culture geek who loves her boyfriend but gets annoyed with him just the same, has to ride the bus to work at the gay store, thinks kitty cats are the cutest things ever, is poor all the freaking time, and has several very good friends who happen to be gay men” just doesn’t have the same ring to it. (Though I might get more hits from Google searches with that title.) I took the time to define what a fruit fly is simply because it is not a well known term yet, and I don’t like the label of fag hag at all, and never really have.
The sheer fact that you take the label of fag hag so seriously - enough that you feel the need to defend it with such fervor and indeed be “sickened” by an alternate phrase - only helps to point out one of the reasons I chose to distance myself from those of your ilk. My sense of self worth does not depend on a label within any community.
Now, let’s break down your comment on a more detailed level.
“If outsiders give Fag Hags a negative connotation, it is their misperception. Why in the world would you change something based on a perception created by straight society”
I hate to be the bearer of bad news sweetie, but “straight society” (though I am loathe to define any difference between straight and gay in such a broad and general manner, I have to go with what you’ve given me here) couldn’t possibly care any less what label you or I use to describe ourselves within our own communities. I’ve never been faced with a straight person who expressed any sort of distaste toward fag hags or fruit flies. Though I’m sure such people exist, I would venture that they wouldn’t make any sort of distinction based on the semantics. No, those who have expressed a negative reaction toward the term fag hag, at least in my experience (I do not dare presume to speak for all people), have been gay men, lesbians, and other straight girls like me who found that fag hag wasn’t a desirable distinction. I did not begin using the term fruit fly until it was bestowed upon me by several gay men, who argued when I called myself a fag hag, pointing out that I was not nearly so unsavory a creature as such a term implied. These particular men are most definitely not the only persons in the gay community who hold this perception either. I offer you some proof:
- An article that appeared in Advocate a bit over a year ago titled “Who you callin’ a fag hag?” lays a lot of it out - and makes perfect sense to me. (And in case you don’t bother to click over and read it, I’ll point out that it’s written by a lesbian.) My favorite quote from this piece: “What I don’t really enjoy, though, is the label. And I’m sure there are sweeter names we can come up with to give to our straight gal allies.” I remember reading that when it was published and nodding emphatically. While we’re at it, here’s a quote from that article that is quite germane to our little discourse, “…we first must stop labeling, judging, and pointing our fingers at each other over the silliest nonsense…” Wise words, wise words.
- The book Fag Hag by Robert Rodi is a great example of what fag hags have come to be thought of over the years. While this is obviously a fictionalized caricature of the stereotype (and a bit overdone on the campy angle, but it is a fun book to read), I am sure there are plenty of gay men who would recognize someone they know well in this fag hag who sabotages all of her best friend’s relationships while harboring her own amorous feelings for him, despite the fact that he’s gay. I won’t spoil the plot for you, but things only get worse from that point. Natalie is not the kind of person I’m aiming to be.
- The movie Fag Hag (which is not based on the book) is described thusly at Yahoo! Movies: “Destiny is a naive suburban twentysomething, who believes that entering a beauty pageant is an important step in her life. Scott is a gay slacker and compulsive liar, who works for a Christian bookstore. The two meet and immediately get on - she is dumb enough to believe his stories, and is intrigued by his homosexuality. He has found an adoring fag hag.” I can’t imagine why I’d want to distance myself from characters like that…
- A recent post on a blog by Abagail Garner, whose father is a gay man and who runs the FamiliesLikeMine website, also points out some issues with the terminology of fag hag: “I voice my opposition to the term ‘fag hag’ regularly and loudly. When gay dads dismiss my opposition and insist I just need to lighten up, I ask them if this label is what their daughters should aspire to be when they are grown.”
There’s lots more where that came from, but I believe I’ve given you enough to start your own quest for enlightenment.
“While your at it, why don’t you just change the word Fag to Fruit. In my opinion, THAT is the offensive word when referring to our Fags. I would never say something like that, as it implies a sterotype. Fruit implies a flaming queen, and not all Fags are that.”
There are so many things wrong with that, I hardly know where to start. Hmm… let’s work backwards.
First, again, the seriousness, oh the seriousness! I have honestly never encountered anyone so offended by the word fruit in relation to a gay man. (That’s not to say that no one is - again, I don’t presume to speak for all.) I feel sure that fruit has been used in the pejorative sense more than a few times, but it is much more lighthearted than most other terms that are bandied about in describing a gay man. Indeed, one of the quickest ways to get a smile out of my customers is to point out that the Gay Gum that we sell in the store is fruit flavored. Granted, a groan usually comes with the smile, but there’s a smile there, nonetheless. I have referred to my closest friends as fruits many times (and just for the record, for whatever odd reason my closest friends are the butchest gay men this side of the leather daddies and bears) and never have they balked. (Though, I kind of wish I had more bear friends… I would call myself a Bear Hugger! Ha, ha! Yeah, anyway.)
Second, what, exactly, is wrong with a “flaming queen”? It is my turn to be miffed - how dare YOU be so presumptuously judgmental as to imply that there is something wrong with a gay man who is more flamboyant or feminine? It’s actually hard for me to keep my composure in addressing this particular bit of your comment. My first reaction was a basic two word response, but I’m trying very hard to keep this at least somewhat civil. I’ll leave it simply at pointing out the ignorance in your statement. Just because something or someone is stereotypical doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with them - stereotypes become stereotypes because they actually do exist - so don’t give me this crap about a stereotype being a bad thing. Believe me, there are thousands upon thousands of so-called “stereotypical” gay men out there. For you to find the implication of someone being a flaming queen to be insulting only shows your own prejudice. Most of the flaming queens I know embrace that label with unrestrained enthusiasm.
Now the word fag on the other hand, oh sister, that one’s got a long history as a belittling label. I won’t bother pasting the whole history of it here, but I suggest you hop on over to the Wikipedia entry on the word and find further enlightenment. (Specifically, pay close attention to the Culture section of that entry.) I will share this one portion: “…usage of the term ‘fag hag’ to describe a woman who associates with (and may prefer as non-sexual social partners) gay men, though this use, too, was originally pejorative.”
There is a school of thought that says “owning” pejorative terms dulls the sting, but honestly, that’s a much larger discussion than I have the energy to take on at the moment. Suffice it to say, rather than own a pejorative, I’d instead come up with something nicer to be used in its place. And when it comes to the word fag on its own, no matter how many of my friends are gay, being a straight female I have no rights to “own” that word. (My friend Faggoty Ass Faggot can, of course, own it all he likes.) If your friends are ok with you calling them “your fags,” good for them and good for you. I’ve done it before - I can’t claim immunity on the subject - but I’ve made efforts to end that practice as I think the word just has too harsh of a history for me to be comfortable with. Let me state for the record, if any of my friends take offense to my use of the word fruit, I’ll work toward coming up with something else. (Though it would totally suck to have to rename my blog, and my URL, and my username in several places… so, um, friends of mine, don’t get freaking offended, ok?)
Just for kicks, I’ll give you a little test to try, if you’re so sure of your personal ownership of the word fag: Walk up to a group of gay men you don’t know and say, “Hey fags!” You might be able to talk your way out of the nasty looks you’ll get eventually, but I’m reasonably sure they won’t be welcoming you warmly.
A quick aside here as well: Let’s just take a moment to discuss the end part of your beloved phrase. Hag? Yeah, well, darling, if that’s what YOU want to be called, go for it. I’d just as soon not be called a hag till I am one. (Though I’m personally aiming for “crazy cat lady” in my old age, thanks.)
“Do whatever you want, but you absolutely have no right outside of your right to express yourself in words, to change a term that has defined a group of women who are a beloved part of the gay community.”
You apparently read something other than what I’ve written. I’m not trying to change anything. You and all the other fag hags in the world are free to call yourselves anything you damn well please; not once have I said that you shouldn’t call yourself that, and there are plenty of fag hags left in the world. I however, would prefer to be thought of in a slightly less derogatory manner if someone just has to label me in some way.
“I for one am a Hag dammit, and I am motherfucking proud!!!!!!”
Whatever floats your boat, babe.
“Shame on you for not saying the same.”
Again, it’s taking every bit of restraint to not reply with a simple fuck you. But here goes anyway: No, shame on you for being such a judgmental and ignorant shit-stirrer. I am inclined to think you have reacted so strongly because you see too much of yourself in the negative aspects of the fag hag definitions.
Before you call someone out, it’s a good idea to do your homework and make sure you know what you’re talking about, and you obviously didn’t. I feel no shame whatsoever in distinguishing myself from the likes of you Amy. Not at all.
I really hope I’ve made it worth what was obviously an interminable wait on your part for my response.
Sincerely,
Mel, a proud fruit fly
Melanie? Darling. Love. Brilliance!
Amy? Sweety. Baby. Get a grip.
Sure, many boys think they take control and ownership by casually spewing “fag” at each other and while I abhor the word on any level, tis their right. However, more often than not when people are discussing “Fag Hags” it is almost always derogatory. I love and adore my female friends and wouldn’t imagine using the term to describe any of them because it conjures up nothing but images of needy, lonely, manipulative and oft obese girls who quickly wear out their welcome and prove to be a greater hindrance in one’s life than anything. Yes, that description comes from the experiences of many.
Sure, I’d rather not be labeled a “Fruit” either but Fruit Fly made me chuckle the first time I heard it and it stuck. I think it is a decidedly welcome alternative for not only two generally offensive words on the basest of levels but I am all for it creating the distinction Amy so rails against. Initially, I felt it a good overall replacement, but I think it time the world knows that women who establish close relationships with gay men are also strong, intelligent, interesting and independant of their own accord.
Just because you rail at a stereotype, doesn’t mean you don’t embody it. Hopefully, as you grow in intellect you will realize the distinctions and cross over. Join us Amy, it’s loads more fun to be in on the joke than to be the joke.
Said by Daniel July 6, 2006 at about 2:25 pm
OK, this is the third time I have been here today and I am still having a hard time coming up with more than that typical two word answer to little miss Fag Hag.
Who wants to be called a HAG? That’s not a good word!
Nope, still can’t marshall appropriate responses through the haze of disbelief… you did a good job with the answer, though
Said by This Girl I Used to know July 6, 2006 at about 3:19 pm
Man alive!
Glad to see you’re still sharp. I’ve been missing your acerbic wit.
I’ve got to make sure you never point those guns my direction… on the other hand, anything to prod you to post more…
Said by KOM July 7, 2006 at about 3:59 am
Wow fruitfly!Fantastic letter.Your patronizing tone, is a clever way to cover your incredible lack of insight regarding this matter. You state the obvious when you say I take my role as a Fag Hag seriously. Too seriously? To me that is relative. From what I’ve just read, I can rightly assume that you take this matter far too lightly. In case you hadn’t noticed, there is a large population in this country, who does not share your optimistic attitude, that sexual orientation does not define a person. Case in point, Matthew Shepard. Case in point, Teena Brandon. Case in point, our current “president” who would like to create a constitutional amendment prohibiting same sex marriages.Its not as though they simply have an opinion. Violence is being hurled at my brothers and sister at every turn. So, until a persons sexuality is not used as punching bag, both literally and politically, I will choose to take being a Fag Hag VERY seriously. I’m happy you have such an enlightened attitude about what does or does not define a person, I happen to share your attitude. Sadly it is a dangerous assumption to make, that everyone feels this way. It seems to me that we have completely different ideas, about what it means to be a Fag Hag. To you it seems this cute little lable you can laugh and joke about with your gay friends. To me it is a statement, and a show of support to the gay community. So yes, honey, damn right I take it seriously. I consider it an honor to be a part of the gay community. Not just a friend of the gays, but a part of the community. Yes I feel very passionately about this subject, and you may make your own assumptions about me. I’ll clear a couple of things up for you. I have never been romantically interested in any of my fags. I have healthy relationships with straight men, they must of course accept my lifestyle, and support the same causes I do. My friends don’t just happen to be gay. I have deeply connected to gay men since I was a child. You might say I was born this way. I’ve always known I was a Fag Hag, so that may be where we differ. I did not chose to be a Fag Hag, it is who I am. It seeps into every aspect of my life. On the subject of self worth. What does your sense of self worth depend on? Why must your sense of self worth depend on anything? If you know your own self worth, you shouldn’t need anything or anyone to depend on, to give you a sense of your self worth. My own self worth exists because I stand up for what I believe in, live responsibly and constantly strive to be in my truth. It is interesting you find the term Fag Hag offensive based on outside perceptions. Please don’t insult me by saying you don’t. I can easily see that based upon the myriad of sources you’ve quoted here. I think its sad you need so much outside validation, to prove your point. Not that you succeeded in doing that as far as I’m concerned. I do not need to quote books, or films, or anyone else for that matter to tell you why I believe what I do. This isn’t a college essay sweetie. I was however, looking for footnotes at the bottom of your diatribe. Ok, so on to the next point of interest. Excuse me for skipping around, but since I’m not using the quoting method, I’m relying on memory and the occasional scroll upwards. The reason I find fruit to be offensive is plain and simple. While you and a few others may find the word Fag to be offensive, it happens to be a word that is widely accepted amongst the gay community. Having been a part of the gay community for more than 15 years, I am on pretty good authority here. Fag is simply a slang word for Gay. Fruit implies a certain type of Gay man. So to call yourself a fruitfly, well wouldn’t that imply you are the fly of only flaming queers? I myself prefer to be the Hag to all types of queers. Flaming, butch, bi, whatever!(My first Fag who bless his soul passed away 3 years ago, was the most flaming fag I’ve ever known. He wasn’t a fruit to me sweetcheeks.Just my Fag, and I his hag) I love them all…and believe me honey they love me. I mean you should have just seen the look of utter….happiness and adoration when I said Hey Fags to a packed audience at this years Pride Fest. Sneers and nasty looks? No. Hey Hag! was their reply. If your theory is correct, then I’ve pissed off virtually every Fag from the east to the west coast. Funny, since I spent Pride evening at a wonderful party hosted by the Democratic party. Honey child, now you know you don’t get a VIP pass by pissing off the Fags. Out of curiosity, how involved are you in the Gay community? I think if you got a little more involved, you might start to become enlightened yourself.
Ok, so about the article from the Advocate. I could be wrong here, but in my experience, Lesbians don’t usually have Hags. That being said, I wouldn’t say they are experts on the subject. I love my Lesbian friends, but they themselves have admitted to me the Fag Hag relationship is something they don’t understand, since it is a pretty exclusive thing between gay men and straight women. From what I read, this woman seems to be taking a Feminist approach to the FagHag subject, when in fact, Feminism is a movement that was created to liberate women from a male dominated society. Let me rephrase that. A straight male society. Yes, even gay men could vote before women, but openly gay men,to this day have less rights as a citizen in this society than women do. Being called a Fag Hag, does nothing in my opinion to either demoralize, or degrade a woman. Clearly she is confused as are you, about what the true meaning of the name is. It was not a choice the Gays made for me to use the name Fag Hag. I chose it for myself, because I am proud of who I am, and it is my wish to represent my sect of the gay community.I mean seriously, do you think fruitfly is a “sweeter”(in the authors own words) alternative? The author is clearly stating she disapproves of the lables used for straight women in the gay community, yet you are siting her article in your qwest to defend your use of the lable fruit fly. Ummm. Ok…. Well, it is alomost 5 am, and I should get some rest before work. So I will continue my comment tomorrow. It was so sweet of you to exert so much energy and time to respond to my comment. I genuinely appreciate you allowing me to post my thoughts on your board, and think its great that you were able to stop yourself from telling me to fuck off. Its obvious to me that your incredible reaction to my post indicates some sort of inner turmoil on your part. You might try looking a little deeper within yourself, and not just through the pages of the worldwide web for media quotes, to figure out what you truly feel. I know you can do it! I know you can think for yourself!! I mean you seem to be mildly intelligent. Go on! Give me an opinion not regurgitated from someone elses pontifications!
As for my fellow posters, I have this to say…Daniel, I completely agree with you. But my definition of a strong intelligent independant woman is a woman who stands up for her own beliefs, gives back to the world, and strives towards spiritual enlightenment. This is what I am doing Daniel. I happen to be lucky enough to have the support and love of some wonderful people, who to quote miss fruitfly just happen to be gay, to share my journey with. I’m only the joke if I find something funny which I don’t. I give no relevance to those who consider being a Fag Hag a joke. Cross over Daniel? Don’t you know I’m already on your side? I’m there in a way fruitfly can never be, for she takes the responsibility of it for granted. We as Fag Hags have this incredible opportunity to make a difference in the lives of so many Gay people, because we are a direct link to the straight world. Do you know how many straight people I have made an effort to help enlighten regarding gay issues, or how much money I have raised for AIDS research, or how much time I’ve spent volunteering my time to help pass marriage laws? This isn’t some joke Daniel. You have fewer rights in this country than any other citizen. Don’t you want to be on the side of justice and unity? That’s what I hope for. Sure it would be easier to join the fruitfly brigade and have fun all day, but in the end, all of us in the gay community, have a SERIOUS responsibility. Yes it is good to have fun, Pride this year was a blast, but lest we forget stonewall and why there is a Pride Fest in the first place. Daniel, you of all people should be aware of the issues.Why would I want to cross over to a land of fantasy and make believe where the world is a pretty little place, where all people have equal rights, and people are not bashed to death because they ARE (contrary to what fruitfly thinks) defined by their sexual orientation.
KOM, I honestly don’t see what is so intimidating about fruitfly. Maybe you mistake sarcasm with wit. You must first have an origonal thought to create a witty statement. All the tripe I’ve read from fruitfly was based on the opinions of others. Advocate, wikopedia,etc…you name it, she quoted it!
All in all, while some of you may not agree with me, hopefully you will have gained a better understanding of my need to take my Fag Hagdom as seriously as I do. Now lets see if fruitfly has the courage to post this. Her retort should be entertaining to say the least. On a final note fruitfly, I’d love your opinion on say Margret Cho, herself a self proclaimed and outspoken FAG HAG. Go Margret! Well, thanks again fruitfly for the chance to voice my views on your board. I’ll be eagarly awaiting your witty response!!!
Love and Peace to all.
Amy
Said by Amy July 7, 2006 at about 7:39 am
Wow, well… From the first comment, I didn’t realize that Amy is the savior and redeemer of all gay-kind. Clearly, she must be right in all things.
I did find it a little amusing that she accuses you of not being involved enough in the gay community, though. Clearly, she hasn’t read the rest of the blog.
Said by This Girl I Used to know July 7, 2006 at about 8:56 am
Just wanted to let everyone here know about a wonderful little website celebrating FagHags. The term is used frequently, and judging from the support they have received from the gay community, it certainly dosn’t seem as though they are offending anyone, nor are they ashamed to be mother fuckin Fag Hags.They do use the word HOMO which I’m absolutely appaled by.NOT.Anyway, Check it out. You know you want to! Its entertaining as well as educational.
http://www.swishpride.org
btw, I’m not in any way affiliated with this organization, so I won’t be accused of self promotion.
Kisses,
Amy
xoxoxo
Said by Amy July 7, 2006 at about 9:01 am
I’m simply doing my part as we should all be doing. I did read some of her blogs, and please by all means correct me if I’m wrong…the only thing she seems to be doing for the Gay community is selling them porn. Not that that’s a bad thing mind you. We all have a purpose.
Said by Amy July 7, 2006 at about 9:12 am
Apparently Amy’s purpose is to wag fingers at those who don’t fit a niche she adheres to. The level of contradictions and hypocrisy is laughable “honey child”. It is painfully obvious that you skip through posts, culling keywords you find suitable to twist, “sweetcheeks”.
BTW, the condescending attempts carry little weight when it’s just childish and bitchy. Instead of trying to intelligently state your case and possibly enlighten those who might have heard nothing but negative connotations with fag hag you pitch a fit and slag derogatory remarks.
Sad thing is, you may actually be a real champion of gay rights and an all-around good gal but you’d never know it from reading that tripe. Funny that you come to Melanie’s house and scold her for choosing to use an alternative to something she finds offensive - and has seen little to prove otherwise - simply because you are offended by it.
DER?
Careful Amy, all that glass could scratch you up.
Said by Ryan July 8, 2006 at about 1:47 am
Battles, as you will have it cannot be won without a little bloodshed. As harsh as my words may seem, to sugarcoat this issue, is impossible for me. Fruitfly has offered me a chance to state my opinions here. She is more than welcome to shut me down at anytime, however, as she stated earlier she has used my post as a springboard to start this discussion. As I am not the webmaster of the site, I have no control as to whether my posts will be seen or not. The condescending tone was set by miss fruitfly. If you read my initial post, I am not condescending, simply stating my case. Friutfly has responding condescendingly in order to put me down, and dispell what are my truths. Obviously it is a language she understands, and I’m more than happy to reciprocate, not to be petty, simply to speak in way she can hopefully comprehend. I’m not interested in whether or not I am perceived as a good person. That is not what this is about. This is about enlightening people, I feel have been misinformed about the term Fag Hag. I have clearly stated what my reasons are for defending it, and the reasons why I feel it must be defended are obvious, if you truly analize my statements, and not just look at them on a surface level. I do not cull words as you so elequently stated. My vocabulary has been well developed long before I decided to participate in this discussion. Trust me, if I were trying to use my lingo as a weapon, I would chose my words much differently. But like fruitfly, I have been able to use restraint in resorting to using certain two word phrases, simply because so many of you here are completely missing my point. Perhaps in my passion, I have come across as harsh and this is not my intention. I’m not so shallow as to take this issue lightly, and sugarcoat it as you seem to want me to do, although, that seems to be the general wish amongst the posters here. Agree or not with what I am saying, it matters not. Discussion is the important thing, I’m happy I have been able to provide that for everyone. It is always my goal to raise awareness. This is not a one dimensional subject, although many of you seem to think so. If I believed for a second, that any of you took this matter seriously, there would be no need for a discussion to continue. After all, it is redundant to preach the choir. Apparently you are not clear in my intentions if you believe my goal is to wag fingers at those who I feel do not fall into a niche. Dig a little deeper into my posts and you will see that the issue is of social relevance and not a personal crusade. I represent something much larger than myself. It is obvious that you are more than willing to take someones word as fact, instead of educating yourself about these issues. You may have heard all the negative conotations associated with the label Fag Hag, but have you actually bothered to educate yourself? I’ve included a link in a previous post which may help you since obviously you don’t get what I’m saying. I’m also unclear as to what derogitory remarks you accuse me of. Anyone who has spent time in the Gay community, is bound to adopt a certain language. As I stated earlier, being a Hag seeps into all aspects of my life. This does happen to include my choice of words. The condescention and pettiness you accuse me runs rampant in fruitflies open letter to me. If you wish to point fingers at this ascpect of our debate, I suggest you point fingers at both sides. While this is her “house” my comments have been more than welcome here, or they would not have been posted by the host. As I said, it is within her rights to delete me at anytime. Hopefully, you will dig deeper into my posts, and understand my true purpose. I am as perplexed by the fruitfly title as you all seem to be by my posts. If what I’m saying is over your heads in intellect, I’ll be more than happy to dumb it down for you so you can understand my case in point. After all, it isn’t the fault of the people of this society they have to be spoken to with sugarcoated statements. This entire country has been dumbed down; from media to politics. It is really sad. Those of us who chose to really examine issues and use or own insights to come to solid conclusions, are a rare bunch. Quoting other sources, hardly makes for good banter. As I stated earlier. To base ones opinion, on the opinion of others is a cop out. One fruitfly obviously has taken gladly. True personal insight is based on experience, reflection, and awareness. You shouldn’t feel badly if you havn’t reached this place yet in your journey. It takes time, so with work and patience, I’m sure you will find that quality. Maybe when you do, you will learn what you believe in, and state your opinions on the issue at hand, instead of using your valuble time defending miss fruitfly. After all she’s already making a admirable attempt at doing so herself. Its great that you want to help her in that way, as I’m sure the validation and support you all are offering her help give her what she depends on for her sense of self worth. I am however willing to stand up against your opposition, if it will help you to start thinking about this issue. After all, as I have stated raising awareness is part of my agenda, and it seems as though I have succeded in doing that so far. It’s great that you are making a contribution and speaking your mind. My only suggestion is that you dig a little deeper within yourself, instead of simply trying to defend someone else. Do you really feel that she is so weak she needs a personal army to assist her? Wow! I wouldn’t take that as a compliment if I were her. I’d be much more interested in hearing about your own personal perseptions on what you think a Fag Hag is and why, so I can assist you having a better understanding. Hopefully this can help you form your own opinion. I will happily respond to any ideas you have about the issue at hand, which is not why you feel I’m being childish and using derogitory remarks which are not derogitory, but what a true Fag Hag is, and why we do or do not support the term fruit fly. I will eagerly await your response. This is such a great discussion! Don’t you all think!! I’m so excited we are feeling comfortable enough to speak our minds without restraint. Getting fired up is a great thing. You should all be very proud of yourselves. I’m proud of each and every one of you for speaking up.
Best wishes,
Amy
Said by Amy July 8, 2006 at about 4:17 am
And the saga continues (and ends).
Said by Mel July 8, 2006 at about 5:47 am
I guess we’ll have to wait and see, won’t we. A girl who dosn’t care what I think has had so much to say to defend herself. LOL. Someone with an apathetic attitude should have no buttons to push. I do feel quite happy to have been able to help fruitfly by pushing these non existent buttons. Hopefully it will help her continue to grow and bring her to a higher plane of enlightenment. We all need help now and then. I’m just glad I could serve her, and many of you in this capacity. It is a very important part of my agenda, as I’ve stated many times, to raise awareness.
Peace and Love,
Amy
Said by Amy July 8, 2006 at about 7:35 am
This is all such crap! I tried to read this posting and tried to read this description fruit fly vs. fag hag and what a waste of energy. But, I felt compelled to write a posting to say what a waste of energy. Why? Because I am a “fag hag” and have been for years (15 to be exact). By bff is a gay guy. As far as sabotaging his relationships? Oh please, he is gay, the average life span of a gay male relationship is approximately three months, then they lose interest. Sound familiar girls? They do the same with us, but being men, they are more understanging with this short sexual attention span and move on quicker. That is until their sexual drive slags with age and then you have the whole gay marriage issue. Been through all of this, whatever, still a fag hag. Again to revisit the “sabotaging”, my fag has been there for me through a bad marriage and and a slew of boyfriends. I have been there for him throught a mulitude of men, we have been the truest of friends and supported each other. If you have a problem with straight people, maybe the problem lies with your friendship skills and not some pointless label. By-the-way, straight, not beastly, not ugly, controlling only around the 10th of each month, and my mid month water weight is none of anyones concern!! FAG HAD - OUT AND PROUD!!!
Said by Jennie July 10, 2006 at about 11:14 am
A real live Fag Hag? Be still my heart. My experience has been the same Jennie. I am none of the things miss fruit fly has perceived a Fag Hag to be. absolutely the opposite. Regardless of how much people don’t wish to get tied down to lables, the fact is they do exist. While I don’t just associate myself as a Fag Hag, as I have said earlier, it is a very important part of who I am, and I see it as more than a label because of what it stands for. Therefore, I must do what I can to protect my good name, and the name of other Fag Hags. When we start buying into the ridiculous ideas, that Fag Hags, are these beastly, ugly, obese straight women who are too pathetic to have “real” relationships with straight men so we romantisize our fags, then the structure begins to crumble. By changing the “label”, you feed into the belief that this is true. My good friend fruitfly made a brilliant statement, when she said stereotypes exist for a reason…because they are true. Well, I am here to shed a little light so that the term Fag Hag dosn’t become some ugly stereotype created by some uneducated people. You will find TRUE Fag Hags all throughout the gay community. Let’s not smear their good names with this ridiculousness. I refuse to sit by and watch a stereotype be justified by women who are supposed to be standing up the rights of the gay men we love so much. I for one will not be made a joke out of, and I’ve thought it sad all along that there are so many of you willing to do just that. My exact suspicion confirmed that those of you who so readily adopt this ridiculous lable, don’t understand in the least what a Fag Hag truly is. Just to clarify something, since miss fruitfly took something I said out of context, I would like to state for the record, that I in fact do have straight friends, and have dated straight men (as I wrote in an earilier post) I have nothing against straight people,(although I can definitely see the comedic appeal in say a film about a straight heterophobe, a great idea for any of you budding filmmakers!) and am in fact quite fond of most straight people. Dosn’t matter to me as long as you are a compassionate and honest person. Shock of all shocks!!! I even have a republican Christian friend. I simply stated, I have been drawn to and gay men have been drawn to me since childhood. I never once stated I have no straight friends, as miss fruitfly so lovingly accused me of in her last post.
Anyway, I hope everyone is well. Back to work now.
Best,
Amy
The Proud Fag Hag
Said by amy July 10, 2006 at about 4:24 pm
Jesus,
You wonder why we’re being pounded into dust by the likes of Ann Coulter and the Bush administration until you read shit like this.
Amy, get a fucking life. You give all liberal and openminded people a bad rap.
Said by Jaclyn July 10, 2006 at about 11:04 pm
LOL, considering Bush has an approval rating in the low percentage, and Ann Coulter has offended even the republicans. Being that I do follow politics, you should probably do your research on Ann Coulter. She is considered to be a nutcase by both political parties. Don’t even get me started on Bush. I don’t see that there is any validity to your statement.
I also don’t recall having said I was a liberal. Although I do have some democrat friends, I never once stated what party I am affiliated with. According to your statement only liberals are openminded? That’s a little closeminded on your part to think that way.All the same, you gave me a good chuckle.
Although this discussion is not about being openminded or not, I will say this. I certainly have my ideas of what I believe is right or wrong. I think being openminded, is something everyone has to define for themselves, based on their beliefs. As are most things, openmindedness is relative… I also will say this. Republicans and democrats in my opinion have done plenty to give themselves a bad rap. They certainly don’t need my help, although its great that you think I have so much influence. \
Cheers,
Amy
Said by amy July 11, 2006 at about 5:24 pm
One last thing I’d like to add….Ummmm. This IS a part of my life. Your statement “get a life” implies, I should find something more valuble to do with my time. Well what the hell are you doing here commenting then, if you think this topic is such a waste of time? I’m making a statement about something that is important to me. Its not a waste of my time or energy to do so. If you think that, I suppose you are entitled to your own opinion.
Said by amy July 11, 2006 at about 5:33 pm
hehehehehehe….
life would be so dull without crazy bitches like you. seriously.
and telling me I don’t know anything about politics is like telling Mel she doesn’t know anything about gay rights.
you have no idea who you’re trying to insult here, so I suggest you stop now.
Said by Jaclyn July 12, 2006 at about 11:05 am
Here’s a little challenge for you sugarpie. Quote from my last post where I said “you don’t know anything about politics” LOL! Didn’t think you could.I did however state an opinion though. This is still a free country, right?
Life would be so dull without morons like you who don’t base their statements on facts, and read things into everything. I suggest you reread my post slowly and carefully. Its always a good rule of thumb to THINK before you speak. As for your suggestion. Ummm. No. As long as fruitfly allows the discussion to remain open, I will feel free to post. Its really not for you to say. If that’s what she wishes, I will respect that and stop posting, but until then… I’m finding this discussion quite stimulating.
As for insults? My oh my how you are hypocritical. Calling me a crazy bitch is quite a way to prove your point. Now I don’t exactly find this an insult, as I will freely admit to being a bit of a crazy bitch at times, mostly around the first of the month. But you deary, might want to be careful of who you sling those type of remarks towards. Not everyone has the great sense of humor I do.
Have a great day Jaclyn!!
Amy
The proud fag hag
Just out of curiosity, I would love to hear your views on politics. You imply that you are some sort of expert, so go ahead!! Lets get your expert opinion on current events. I also don’t recall saying to Fruitfly, “you know nothing about gay rights!!” That I don’t know. For all I know, she’s out every weekend going door to door with a marriage petition. This was a discussion about the term fruitfly vs. Fag Hag, in case you haven’t been reading the other posts, which judging from your comments, is pretty likely.
xoxo
Said by amy July 12, 2006 at about 4:15 pm
*yawn*
Said by Jaclyn July 13, 2006 at about 10:59 am
Yes,I’m sure it was pretty tiresome searching for those imaginary quotes you accused me of writing. What a sad, pathetic little reply. Jesus! If you’re the type of person involved in politics, its no wonder our government has gone to hell in a handbasket!!
Said by amy July 13, 2006 at about 2:18 pm
What I think is funny is Amy’s first comment when she speaks of her gay friend as a pet.
“In my opinion, THAT is the offensive word when referring to our Fags.”
“Fruit implies a flaming queen, and not all Fags are that.Mine certaintly isn’t.”
Dude, do you have a friend or a collie?
Forget which title to go by, I wouldn’t want anyone to demean me to the point that I’m as precious as their cat.
Whatever.
Said by Reese July 25, 2006 at about 3:36 pm
My head just exploded. Just now. Ow.
Will write something about you and Marshall (and update my links) later tonight, but wanted to read what all the kids were talking about.
Great meeting you, gorgeous.
Said by Frankie July 25, 2006 at about 8:44 pm
Hi Reese
Glad you stopped by to leave your incredibly ridiculous comment. Just out of curiosity…what do you say when you introduce your husband/wife, girlfriend/boyfriend, mother, friend, brother , sister…Do you say, hello please meet the mother, the brother. Ummmm ok. How does saying MY fag imply that he is like a pet? I think this is actually the way the English language works. When you are referring to someone you have a personal relationship to, you say my…ie… my brother, my wife, my mother, my husband and yes, my dog. Now on the other hand if you were referring to someone in a non personal way, you would say her husband, her sister, her fag…or I suppose you could say, the sister of. Sorry sweetie, but a pronoun is a necessary part of grammar. Did you go to school? It’s ok if you don’t understand the basics of the English language. It can be a bit tricky. My suggestion is to know what you’re talking about before you write something that makes absolutely no sense. Just out of curiousity, don’t you think it would be a bit confusing if I were not to use a pronoun when talking about my fag? Otherwise, wouldn’t I just be referring to some random gay guy. Just to try it out here is are the sentences the way I wrote them. Then, I will try them out using the word the…as a way to depersonalize (or I guess we can just say to not imply ownership of a pet) my statement. Here goes…
My origonal statement
“In my opinion, THAT is the offensive word when referring to our Fags.”
“Fruit implies a flaming queen, and not all Fags are that.Mine certaintly isn’t.”
Now, lets try it YOUR way
“In my opinion, THAT is the offensive word when referring to the Fags.”
“Fruit implies a flaming queen, and not all Fags are that.The fag certaintly isn’t.”
Yea…that makes sense. I suppose I could substituted Gay best friend, but since this is a discussion on the use of the term Fag Hag vs. Fruit Fly, I really don’t think that makes sense.
Of all the ridiculous statements I’ve read on this board, I’d have to say that wins the gold medal.
Said by Amy July 27, 2006 at about 11:16 pm
OK, I know I said I was done with this… but I just wanted to suggest that perhaps Amy might want to get a blog of her own. At this point, she’s posted more in the comments section of this blog that I post on my blog in a month
Although, ye gods, there are so many things I could say to the various statements that have been floating through this thread.
Oh, and insulting Reese? No, now, that’s just too much. Time to stop.
Said by This Girl I Used to know August 2, 2006 at about 9:05 am
Yes, I’ve already grown quite weary of the ignorance floating around here…so, time to move on. As for Reese, it’s not my fault she/he does not have a basic grasp of 4th grade grammar. Hey, not everyone is blessed with an IQ in the upper digits. But really fruitfly, it was just something that needed to be commented on. I hope Reece has since brushed up on her/his pronouns. In either case, its been charming. Time to move onto greener, more cultured, well educated, etc… pastures.I must say, Its been quite interesting slumming, these past few weeks. BTW…as summer has approached, I’m bound to see a fruitfly or two in my home every now and then…lingering over the oranges, and grapes on my kitchen counter. I think of the lovely people on this board, everytime I spray them with bug killer. It eases the guilt of having to eradicate an innocent incect. These are pesky little creatures, which unfortunately are no match for me, and have no place in my world. So off to fruitfly heaven they must go. Anyway, take care.Its been an exciting discussion… just thrilling : )
Best wishes,
Amy
The Proud Fag Hag
Said by amy August 4, 2006 at about 6:18 pm
“Just because you rail at a stereotype, doesn’t mean you don’t embody it”…
Some definititions of stereotype
To make a stereotype of.
To characterize by a stereotype: “Elderly Americans are the neglected sector of the fashion industry, stereotyped by blue hair and polyester pantsuits” (American Demographics).
To give a fixed, unvarying form to.
Lots of stereotyping here- but at least the “fruitfly” is funny, and has her finger on the pulse of reality…and doesn’t hear names in an attempt to make a point. Though sticks and stones logic may apply here- I would think Amy you should read a bit on logical fallacies, and for goodness sake, get a sense of humour!
Said by Dorothy December 1, 2006 at about 8:30 pm
To Fag Hag Amy and Fruit Fly
Get a grip… both of you… who do either of you think you are labeling yourselves and making such a big deal over nothing. There are far too many things to worry about in this world besides whether someone labels you as a fruit fly or a fag hag… and these are nothing but labels. Do they really define you at all. I should hope not. Maybe instead of spending so much time tearing eachtother apart you could actually be doing something that would benefit our gay friends. And isn’t that what they are? Our friends? I am pretty sure that my gay male friends call me just that… their friend. No negative connotations, no sugar coating… just friend. Both of you GET A LIFE.
Said by Hannah December 16, 2006 at about 7:10 pm
I just found this while doing a google search and thought that I would mention thatI agree with Fag Hag more than Fruit Fly.
I am a gay man, and I find the term fruit fly offensive and brash (even if you are trying to be tongue-in-cheek –> it is not working).
I have heard of fag hags who do not like the word hag because they automatically think of the sea hag form Popeye cartoons or some old bitty or crone. Instead of embracing the full term, they are stuck on one part of it - one word.
And not all fag hags are like fruit fly says they are. And, I am not talking about exceptions to the rule. Just by writing up a whole article on the terms and trying to stereotype them is in and of itself doing damage.
The movie and book are both works of FICTION. FICTION is NOT real. Did you not get the memo? You wouldn’t want anyone to judge us gays based on movies and books or we would be in a lot of trouble! No fag I know is anything like those stereotypes on Queer as Folk and no Fag Hag I know is anything like what is portrayed in the media.
So, umm, maybe, we should like all calm down and say to each their own? If you do not want to be called hag because your just cannot make lemonade out of lemons, then find something more positive that the term “fruit fly” to come up with. It is way more offensive and I would NEVER be friends with someone who wanted to use that term. You honestly think fruit fly is better? No matter how you definie it - it is much worse. Sure, it redeems you from having the word hag in there but it makes all of us out to be queens. And many of us are not.
Just my honest feedback. Do with it what you will.
Said by Brian December 31, 2006 at about 7:55 pm
Amy, you’re a cunt.
Said by Leylei September 17, 2008 at about 8:01 pm